THE GENETICS OF HOMOSEXUALITY

SerendipUpdate's picture
Biology 103
Web Reports 1997
From Serendip

THE GENETICS OF HOMOSEXUALITY

Dara Newman
In trying to decide on a topic for this WWW project, it seemed logical to try and focus on a current subject. Homosexuality and homosexual behavior has existed for thousands and thousands of years, probably even before the times of homo-sapiens. However, up until a few years ago, the issue was discussed mostly by people in the social sciences. Psychologists, such as Freud, studied homosexuals extensively in hopes of coming up with an explanation for their "abnormal" behavior. All of the explanations that these people created linked homosexuality to experiences that homosexuals have while growing up. Generally speaking, people in the world of psychology believed that homosexuality could be explained by a person's environment. However, in the past four or five years, the subject of homosexuality has been creeping into the world of biology. Studies have been done recently that attempt to look at homosexuality in a scientific light in hopes of coming up with a genetic explanation for sexual preference.

One of the first successful scientific studies that was done on homosexuality was reported on in 1993. The purpose of this study was to look at families in which there was an abnormally high occurrence of homosexuality. By extensively studying the family histories of these families, researchers hoped to find some clues pointing towards the genetic factors that affect homosexuality. That is exactly what happened. By looking at the family trees of gay males (For some reason, this study only focused on male homosexuality, but made the claim that their findings would be similar to the ones that would be found by looking at female homosexuality. As this paper will discuss later, this assumption that male and female homosexuality can easily be compared may be entirely inaccurate.) it seemed that the majority of homosexual occurrences were on the maternal side of the tree. From this information, researchers concluded that if in fact there was a "homosexual gene", it appeared to be passed down from mother to son. This means that heterosexual females are carriers of this gene, and when it is passed down to a male child, there is a chance that the child will be a homosexual. While this study did not come up with any hard core facts about the genetics of homosexuality, it showed that a connection very well could exist. Since this study did determine that the gene influencing homosexuality was carried by the mother, researchers participating in further studies knew that they could limit their search to the X chromosome, and that is exactly what they did (5).

One of the most influential studies on the genetics of homosexuality was done by Dean Hamer and his co-workers at the National Cancer Institute in Washington DC (1993). Hamer's research involved studying thirty-two pairs of brothers who were either "exclusively or mostly" homosexual. None of the sets of brothers were related. Of the thirty-two pairs, Hamer and his colleagues found that two-thirds of them (twenty-two of the sets of brothers) shared the same type of genetic material. This strongly supports the hypothesis that there is an existing gene that influences homosexuality (4). Hamer then looked closely at the DNA of these gay brothers to try and find the region of the X chromosome (since the earlier research suggested that the gene was passed down maternally) that most of the homosexual brothers shared. He discovered that homosexual brothers have a much higher likelihood of inheriting the same genetic sequence on the region of the X chromosome identified by Xq28, than heterosexual brothers of the same gay men. Keep in mind though, that this is just a region of the X chromosome, not a specific gene. Although researchers are hopeful, a single gene has not yet been identified (7). Hamer's study also acknowledges the fact that while it does suggest that there is a gene that influences homosexuality, it has not yet been determined how greatly the gene influences whether or not a person will be homosexual (4). In addition, Hamer attempted to locate a similar gene in female homosexuals, but was unsuccessful (7). The results that Hamer's study did find though, cannot yet be accepted as absolute truth. Another study took place in 1993 by Macke et al. This study examined the same gene locus as the Hamer study, but found that it had no influence on homosexuality (8). As you can see, the results on this topic are still extremely varied and reasonably new, so it is difficult to come to any lasting conclusion.

Other studies have been conducted that look at twin brothers rather than brothers of different ages. Bailey and Pillard (1991) did a study of twins that determined a Ò52% concordance of homosexuality in monozygotic twins, 22% for dizygotic twins, and 11% for adoptive brothers of homosexual men (8). These results, like Hamer's, provide further support for the claim that homosexuality is genetically linked. Studies very similar to the Bailey and Pillard study have been done both with female homosexual siblings and siblings of both sexes. The results for both of these studies were only off from Bailey and PillardÕs by a few percentage points. Putting all of these results together, it seems like genetics are at least 50% accountable for determining a personÕs sexual orientation (8).

Looking at the results of many of the other studies I have discussed, it seems a little strange to me that the student of homosexual siblings who were both male and female came up with similar result as the studies that looked exclusively at male homosexuality. Hamer's study, along with others, have tried to located a gene that influences female homosexuality, but they have been unsuccessful. More importantly, the region of the X chromosome that very possibly could influence male homosexuality does not influence females in the same way. Female heterosexuals merely pass the gene sequence on to their sons. Knowing this, it seems odd to me that there would be such a high percentage of male and female homosexual siblings. Perhaps this suggests that if genetics are responsible for homosexuality, we have a long way to go before we completely understand the gene loci that determine sexuality.

Aside from the scientists who are researching the topic of homosexuality and genetics, there are many other people who have concerns and vested interests in the topic. The information that is being discovered has been used by people in both positive and negative ways. On the one hand, there are members of the gay community who are very excited to find that the life-style they live is not entirely a choice that they made, as homophobic people often like to believe. Some homosexuals feel that if the world realizes that homosexuality is something people are born with, just like the color of your skin or your eyes, then people will begin to be more accepting of the homosexual life-style (5). However, on the other hand, there is also a group a people who believe that if homosexuality is in fact genetically linked, then there should be a way to genetically alter homosexuals in order to make them "normal" (3).

Before I started researching this topic on the world-wide-web, I did not realize what a new and controversial issue the genetics of homosexuality was. From tid-bits of news that I had picked up along the way, I thought that scientists had located, without a doubt, a gene that plays a role in influencing sexual orientation. From the research that I have discussed above, that is obviously not the case. I am eager to follow this subject more in the future and see what biology will discover next.

References

1) Genetics and Homosexuality, from the Gene Letter

2) Homosexuality: Genetics and the Bible, by Tom Terry, Cutting Edge Magazine

3) Statement on NIH Genetic Study on Homosexuality, from the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

4) New study says genetics influences homosexuality, from St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 1995

5) Homosexuality and Genetics, one person's views

6) A commentary on "Research on Sex Orientation Doesn't Fit the Mold"

7) Genetics Press Cuttings, from The Knitting Circle, South Bank University, London

8) The Hypothetical Genetics of Sexual Orientation, by Keith Bell, a Boston University undergraduate

9) Is there a genetic basis for sexual orientation?, from Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance

10) Lesbianism/homosexuality - a human surival trait, a commentary on the Queer Resources Directory

11) Homosexuality: Its in Your Genes, an article posted on QRD

12) Genetics and sexuality, a news report

 

 

Comments made prior to 2007

I am iranian gay in a gay family, my dad was gay and my brothers and the sons of my brothers all are gay, o know something about the homosexuality factors that is can be proven, i have some ideas so i ll be glade if i receive a comment from a scientist working in this area, by the was i am also aducated person and can help more in this matter ... Kamyar, 28 December 2007

Comments

Fly Ty's picture

this post should put an end to all this foolishness

1. Obviously homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time if animals committed homosexual practices and they were here on earth before humans. 2.I had an attraction for men since I was 5, I had crushes on my guy friends and girlfriends, but I liked my guy friends more. I tried being straight by dating and attempting to have sex with women but it felt uncomfortable, but I still had an attraction for guys, that's how I knew for sure I was gay. I mean like really, how hard is it to know if a guy/girl turns you on more sexually, c'mon people it's not rocket science. 2. No I didn't choose to be homosexual, but I did choose to date men because they are who I feel more comfortable being with. 3. I'm perfectly physically/mentally healthy, it's just a possibility that if I have kids they would have diabetes, cancer, or eczema. So genetics has nothing to do with homosexuality. 4. Last but not least, God is real religion is made up. Let's face it God's a spirit no one has ever met him in real life, no one knows exactly what he wants, God predestined our lives, we just have to live it, and learn from our mistakes. He already knew it was going to be homosexuals and others weren't going to like it and give us a hard time. We just can't forget him throughout all our suffering. No one and I mean no one is perfect and There's nothing we can do to make God love us more, and there's nothing we can do to make God love us less. Which is where you so called holy and saved people get it twisted. So stop forcing your beliefs on others. Why we can't love thy neighbor as thyself and just mind our own businesses. I'm pretty sure there's enough going on in our own lives to worry about than worrying about if homosexuality has to do with genes and other biological things of that nature, or should be accepted or not, it's always going to be in the world, it's never going away just like murder and other crimes. This is earth, and we're only human. Get over it, it's not that serious. Just be yourself and live life the way you want to live it, God did give us free will btw. Oh and pray very important lol :D

papiconfy's picture

lesbian

i am a lesbian... and i believe that being gay isn't a choice but a behavior, if being gay was a choice, i wouldn't choice a life style that is frowned upon ... everyone loves their freedom, so i think gay men and women should be given theirs.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Origins

It is a behavior. If homosexuality was in the genetic code of human beings then it would show itself in every single culture across the globe. This is not the case. It is a learned behavior and a bad on at that.

Serendip Dr. Elbie's picture

how void of logic, facts, and depth your comment is...

Your comment, "If homosexuality was in the genetic code of human beings then it would show itself in every single culture across the globe." is highly illogical and oversimplistic, but even your own if:then framework supports the case that it is NOT a choice.

This post is 5 years old, and all scientific reports done in the last half decade (along with anthropological reports) have supported homosexuality being NATURAL and not chosen by our species or any of the other over 600 genus+species groups observed actively choosing homosexual activity over heterosexual, ALL mammals observed engaged in homosexual activity which incidentally makes them far less VIOLENT than the species-our own and great apes-whose males attempt to force female partners into monogamy...(What has been observed across every species we watch has been predominantly male on male as it is far less discreet than female behaviour, though many female mammals rub their clitorises against one another when biology allows as is true with bonobos, and they fondle each other and perform oral sex on each other as well--it's natural to NOT constantly be pregnant and sex draws entire communities together in a tighter more trusting and less stressed environment-it's used to negotiate and calm arguments in mammals especially, humans no exception... When a female has a new baby or is pregnant and less able-unlike humans their babies pop out fully developed-men get horny and go off with one another... Other OLDER human civilizations have 5 genders-it's a SPECTRUM not a dichotomy!-and only post-ag Judaic societies have, under the threat of male punishment, put guys in charge, started wars under the fully selfish and peace-threatening notion that portions of the earth are somehow owned by specific humans-what garbage!-and that while they opted for a man to have hundreds of concubines women were forcibly-violently-committed not of their own will but purchased from their fathers as cattle which in fact they were directly called in the old testament+Torah...their only relief was in sexual relations with each other).

If it is so unnatural then why have most parents reported, when studied, their children being seen engaging in homosexual behavior with friends and peers before they even turn 5? Only young kids are truly free of your bigotry. The simple truth is we need LESS humans to be born. Smarter animals like chimps understand that it is only wise to have one youngster per couple until that kid is grown and able to feed itself and can go seek its own family and fortune-they rarely have over two as it would make too many starved of good quality food which is PRECISELY what adopting agriculture-property the real reason judaism was invented at all-did to humans. People had more kids to claim and farm more land but in doubling the number working you only increase output by a fourth. Why we kept it amounts to stubborn pride and stagnancy often born of fear...it's still a rotten system to have massive fields of junk like corn and soy, but we're lazy and stubborn still and apparently think it fine to reward land-destroying fire-encouraging Monsanto types who ACTUALLY own those farms and their staff, as growing nutritious crops is EXTREMELY laborious (dependent on weather too) and it's pretty hard to hunt and forage anymore with everyone insisting it's THEIR land. You're worried about others having relationships with the same sex when that isn't the unnatural thing-these monotheistic silly religions the oldest of which has existed less than 2percent of the time documented tribes of humans have walked the earth, THAT is what is destroying our species and placing blame everywhere but where it belongs... So keep blaming mating for wars and starvation. Maybe read Sex at Dawn and some studies of early cultures we know of before trying to fit everything into the destructive religious ideology wherein forcefully acquired wealth should be how worth is determined and the few rich will control everyone below and say God told them to or other nonsense.

Serendip Visitor Bob Butts's picture

cause of homosexuality

I worked with F. Batmanghelidj MD, discoverer of the water cure during the last ten years of his life. He said his research proved that homosexuality was caused by dehydration of the DNA. The expectant mother was dehydrated from consuming too much caffeine, alcohol or soda and/or lack of water and/or sea salt.

He wanted to do a book on it, but his family talked him out of it. Being that I never knew Dr. B. to be wrong on any ground breaking concept, I'm sure that any highly creative and imaginative researcher could easily verify it, especially knowing the amniotic that a baby lives in is made of salt and water, the two most life essential nutrients.

He said the same thing is true about birth defects.

Serendip Visitor's picture

I HAVE A QUESTION

If your father is gay then is he you real father and became gay after having you and your brother with a women. it wouldn't make sense if you were adopted and saying the homosexuality is genetic. I am just really interested in the story. I really like you paper and it is helping me write my own paper. it would be great is you could reply.

Serendip Visitor's picture

"becoming gay"

You don't become gay. Actions are not the same as preference. A gay man can force himself to have sex with women in order to hide - which can easily lead to children - without having feelings for them or being straight. The same is true in reverse. A man does not become gay by having sex with another man. If he does not naturally prefer men for sex partners and have no desire for women (even if he can force himself to engage in sex with them) then he is not gay.

Regards

Guest's picture

Gay and Lesbian

It is certainly not by choice to become gay or lesbian ... it comes from harmones (genes) and also from upbringing while as a child and teens. Studies have shown that children become homosexual when are deprived of their privileges as being a child and they become very close friends, see love, affection security extended by their equivalent partners.
There seems nothing wrong with the children it is beyond their scope. In families, however,
1. it becomes very hard for parents to accept and move forward with their child's such relationship.
2. It is difficult for parents to understand and openly communicate in such situations resulting in distancing from them (which is very hard in their mind).
3. Somehow, it also becomes difficult for both. It is hard to explain but one can feel the difference.

I have nothing negative against homosexuals .. my views are only based on how parents feel in this situation when there have not been any history of such happenings in their family tree of generations.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Becoming gay?

You dont "become" gay. You are born that way. And it has nothing to do with how a child was raised either. Ask any gay person you know. most of them will tell you they knew they were gay at a very early age, before they had any awareness of sexuality.

Nick's picture

It's all speculation!

It's all speculation! Everything is individual. The church goers and the genetics fanatics can all jump off a bridge for all I care. Because it's NONE OF ANYONES BUSINESS but my own!

weng's picture

genetical or not

homosexuality, whether its genetical or not. The reason why God burned Sodom and Gomorrah is because of homosexuality. Genesis chapter 19

Straight but not narrow minded's picture

weng...maybe you should

weng...maybe you should re-read your bible...Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for reasons other than homosexuality, it was more and issue of forcing ones belief's on another

Not to mention that they were destroyed by a volcano and earthquake as they were in a very geologically active area. In those days, horrific natural phenomena were 'blamed' on supernatural powers because it was easier than saying one didn't understand...kinda like saying the earth is flat or that everything revolves around us...

Serendip Visitor's picture

Yes, that's really put me off

Yes, that's really put me off being gay. Bahahaha

Serendip Visitor's picture

BELIV OR NOT, BUT DONT DISCRIMINATE

For the purpose of this discussion i will refer only to homosexual males. Hate is not promoted by any religion, so no matter your beliefs its not right to comment in a way that will hurt a gay guy who reads it. Science isnt true with giving us those facts yet, but i dont need to wait for any facts. Its obvious to me dat they may not be genes (yet) that make guys gay, but homosexual males are unquestionably born with the tendency to see their same sex in sexual preference. Why so? because since time began, no culture in the world has supported homosexuality, as its always seen as 'different' hence= 'abnormal' . So no right thinking guy in the face of such critisicm would beliv himself attracted to his same sex except he was naturally inclined to do so. For where, out-of-the blues would he entertain such 'alien' notion ???

NB
Homosexual men are not, on the numerical increase, the less hateful environment is simply letting more out of the closet. I love you all! Thanks for reading

Serendip Visitor's picture

not proven

the claim that homosexuality has been proven to be genetic is false. look at the studies and there's always flaws in the findings.
Problems with Hamer’s Study
One of the most significant problems with Hamer’s approach is that he and his colleagues did not feel that it was necessary to check whether any of the heterosexual men in these families shared the marker in question! Would it not be useful to know whether or not this “gay gene” is found in heterosexuals? Even if only a few of them possess the gene, it calls into question what the gene or the self-identification signifies. Additionally, Hamer never explained why the other seven pairs of brothers did not display the same genetic marker. If this is “the gene” for homosexuality, then one must assume all homosexual individuals would possess that particular marker—and yet that was not the case in Hamer’s study.

flaws can be found in other similar studies and results can and will always be looked at in the favor of genetics. I'm not saying it ISN'T genetics, just that it has NOT been proven.

Kim Espy Rhodes's picture

not be proven

He stated that ..... he said he hopes that future scientific studies will prove that it will genetically linked. You obviously didn't read the statement above. good grief. I am 100% sure they will come up with a genetic link to homosexuality. I would love to be a part of that study! I am a heterosexual married woman, but have friends of homosexual children. I have watched these children grow up........... and trust me.... they were born gay.

Tom Rea's picture

Homosexuality

I believe that homosexuals are born with this trait. In Afghanistan there is an ethnic group called Pushtuns. There seems to be a great deal of male homosexuality in this group. Has there ever been any research into there lifestyle?

LA Crotts's picture

Really glad to see an open

Really glad to see an open forum on this. I have only checked out one of the sources that you gave a name for (Bailey and Pillard, 1991). Above it was stated this specific study gave further support for the genetic link. What I found, copy & pasted below, does not appear to me to say that. Could you please let me know what I missed? Thanks.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1845227 Last portion of the Abstract:
"However, the rate of homosexuality among nontwin biological siblings, as reported by probands, 9.2% (13/142), was significantly lower than would be predicted by a simple genetic hypothesis and other published reports. A proband's self-reported history of childhood gender non-conformity did not predict homosexuality in relatives in any of the three subsamples. Thus, childhood gender nonconformity does not appear to be an indicator of genetic loading for homosexuality. Cotwins from concordant monozygotic pairs were very similar for childhood gender nonconformity."

Serendip Visitor guest's picture

Unsure?

Terminology like 'cant help it, tried to change, you dont know what its like, just let them be who they WANT to be,who would wish this on themselves' would suggest the poor old gay community are very miserable with their lot. Seems to me that they are looking for a lot of justification and approval from me for their choice of life STYLE. Why?

Can I suggest that the gay community is a little unsure of their choice and need the rest of us to be accepting of them so as to settle any conscience debate going on in the quiet ressess of their souls and hearts? Would it be politically incorrect for me to suggest that they are a little hetrophobic?
Am I also not allowed to have my opinion? Can I help it if I was born hetrosexual? What about my right to be straight and own my opinion without having to justify it everytime I dont agree with another?

There has also been mention of evolution being part of the equation? Huh! I thought part of the idea of evolution, which by the way is still a therory, was to improve the species through reproduction and elimanate weaker genes. My understanding of that is that a still to be found genetic gay gene would have been ellimanated through this process because there is no chance of reproduction of the species if the 'gay gene' strengthened.

And if two straight parents with no 'gay gene' produce an offspring that has the 'gay gene' then is that a mutant gene?
And if someone who has been in a loving straight relationship for years and engages in sexual activity with someone of the opposite sex, but is now 'born that way' , has the loving physical hetrosexual relationship been a detestable act that they have not enjoyed?

I am of the opinion that we all have choice and if yours is to consider yourself gay then deal with it, but stop with the balaney about being born that way and insisting that I agree with you. Please if I am wrong then publish the Factual information naming the 'gay gene and lets be done with it. If not then don't call me homophobic because I dont agree with you. Otherwise I may just have to start a hetrophobic movement.

Nick's picture

RE: Unsure.

I can tell you that the amount of straight guys I've slept with is a lot. Some tried it once or twice then moved on. Some stuck with it. I think everyone is bisexual, but swayed by their environment and conditions. The genetic argument is purely based on a need to prove something others.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Reply to'Unsure'

That is the most logical, sensical, non hateful or intolerant and clear approach to homosexuality that I have ever heard.You are fantastic. That was a pretty flawless argument.

Serendip Visitor's picture

alright cool you've tried to

alright cool you've tried to dodge flak by seperating yourself from the ignorant hate mongering you just unleashed and then try to bring it back to people telling you different. what did you just do?? your a hypocrite you just tried to convience everyone here that heterosexuality is the superior sexuality and that homosexuality is a choice. so lets break down your points a bit.

dont get confused, straight people flaunt there heterosexuality all the time, its just the accepted as the norm so when a gay person does the same thing all of a sudden he is seeking attention. your right to say that some gay communities have adopted a resentment toward heterosexuality, but lets get it straight to be heterophobic or homophobic is to have an irrational fear of it. hating is a little different... the reason these gay men have formed such resement toward straight people is because of the ridicule they have faced. that being said the discussion on hand is whether or not genetics has an affect on homosexuality. to me your making a sociological observation that has factors that are outside homosexuality. your making observations on the outcomes of upbring and environment so that points invalid to the orignal idea of the post. and come on really youve had to explain your heterosexuality. stop fishing for validity by trying to disvalidate others struggles as if you have endured the same thing. congrats your an ass, does it feel good?

alright lets look at the evolution side of it. The theory of evolution is purely a biological analysis on the progression of life. last time i checked gay men were still fertile. last time i checked many gay men have had sex with women before being comfortable enough to be themself and admit they are gay. it not like we gays can't inseminate a women and even so it can be done artificially. so once again your point is invalid and once again you let your ethnocentric sociological view points pervert the human condition, to obtain happiness in being ones self.

who one is attracted to is not choice. why would someone choose to subject themselves to bigots like yourself? why would someone choose to be a second class citizen if they can just pick their sexuality, if thats the case why dont you try being gay, i mean its a choice so you can make that choice right? you know you and everyone here should really do some research and learn to look at the world outside of your own close-minded morals. its pretty pathetic that your so poorly educated that you cant understand sexuality. i hope you understand by just having view points like that, many people will genuinely look down on you. and if you cant see that, then its obvious that you surround yourself with similarly uneducated people. but what can you do? your as dumb as your bigot parents who raised you to be ignorant. you will completely write off what i say but i at least hope you take the time to actually think about why you think homosexuality is an inferior sexuality. sexuality is sexuality and its different from person to person. i guess i dont understand why you would think so negatively about other peoples sexual interest. i guess you will never see it different until you stop putting such an importance on sexuality and seeing sexuality as black and white. it rarely defines a person and if it does its perpetuated by the stereotypes of our society and it happens because a person isnt given and environment that is condusive to there inner self.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Homosexuality

So some reason, I shy away from homosexuals because I consider their behavior abnormal. From childhood and boyhood, I also had ugly experiences of men (both relatives and strangers) trying to molest me and many others, even on public vehicles. There is nothing beautiful about homosexual act, but the very opposite (deeply shameful). Just look at their faces, their sadness, guilt and frustrated looks and antisocial tendencies. I believe it was grave error justifying their lifestyles and actions and aggressively promoting them, instead of caring for them by try to find a good cure for this problem. I think we should not abandon them to their fate saying, nothing can be done.since it is orientation that cannot be changed. I think we did not have the same fatalistic outlook against AIDS. We have not got a true cure for AIDS, but with hundreds of scientists working hard for years, we have found many medicines, which really help and modify and give relief to many AIDS patients. To conclude something as scientific without trying, betrays with some hidden agenda to destroy humans morally and spiritually. New and honest researches need to be done, but keeping in mind that some of the conclusions, preconditions or preconceived notions even of the scientific community may need to reconfirmed from scratch. I am also aware of clusters of powers in every nation that will boo down every honest brave study, research or questioning. It is like in fact, "Just say yes to it or face death? No more questions and no more research." To peacefully coexist, compromise and just forget about the it. Asking honest questions, means facing towards the line of fire and face martyrdom.

Serendip Visitor David's picture

IF Only it was a choice ! !

I have personally know hundreds of gay people. It is not a choice by any means I've known of 36 gay people that committed suicide because it was morally wrong. Just accept the fact that they are here. Love them, they are human. And for you bible thumpers, Don't throw the first stone, Unless you are totally without sin.

Asashii's picture

if it is genetic thats is

if it is genetic thats is genetic then it would have to passed down by the mother, woman would have to carry and pass this gene, and even if it was recessive then homosexuality would decline not boom like we have seen in the past couple of decades. thats why it is called ressive, because men not producing offspring over 10 generations and that gene would be so buried if they had it inheritely, like the baldness gene it would have to come from mom. not scientific data to support that it is even genetic, and de-gayification camps are everywhere, im a behaviorist and doubt that this will be linked to DNA ever, just like the debunked old theory that crime can be genetic, monkey see what monkey do or it doesnt do at all !!!!!

Serendip Visitor's picture

Monkey See, Monkey Do!

I, in no way wish to discredit your work as a "behaviorist" but if you're so incline to relate this to your work I'd like to know what kind of behaviorist you are, considering there are many kinds of specializations. Do you speciafically study the learned behavior of homosexuals? As far as a crime gene, you're right there's no such thing. However, Lombroso studied this in the 18 something's (I'm sorry I cannot think of the exact date) that was over 100 years ago. During the time of the classical school theory, people were searching for answers. So yes, after 100 years Lombroso's Theory of Crime has been "debunked". Seeing as you're a "behaviorist", I'd imagine you've studied serial killers, which you should know, there are genes/mental problems, ie: personality disorders, that strongly correlates to those who are labeled serial killers. Is there a gene that says "yes you will commit crimes", no but there are genes that predisposes a person to crime. I'd say monkey see, monkey do is more along the lines of the differential association theory, even then it's a bit iffy. You are comparing apples and oragnes, unless to say, the theory will be "debunked". If thats the case once they've studied the gay gene for 100 years, conclusively, and can prove, without doubt in anyone's mind, that it's not genetics I'll stand corrected. If you study that all behaviors are learned, is being straight a "learned" orientation as well? If that's the case we will never know which is abnormal, heterosexual, or homosexual. :)

katie 's picture

not a choice

I realized I was gay when I was 19, but at the time I thought maybe I was bisexual. I never was never interested in love before because I was a tomboy/girl who never was into boys as much as my friends were. I thought I was supposed to be with a guy so I found some guys to be attractive but I just couldn't feel the attraction for them as much as I could for girls and how I connected with them in a spiritual kind of way. I was always interested in gay people, though I never thought of myself as being gay or being able to see myself as a lesbian because I was scared of what my parents would think or what my friends would think. But eventually me and this girl started getting closer and it felt normal to be in love with her. I've gone out with a couple guys in the past, and it seriously lasted for a week because I just couldn't feel it. I was so confused after my last relationship with a boy because I thought maybe I would live alone for the rest of my life and never feel what other people could. But once I started accepting that I could like girls I felt happier and better about myself because I knew what I wanted to be. And this is why being gay is not a choice... homophobic people like you cause so much hatred for people who are just like you. We're normal. We may be a minority, but it is not a reason to call us "abnormal" or say we have a "mistake in our dna". We're not going away anytime soon because homosexuality has existed in humanity and the animal kingdom since evolution. It's impossible for a gay man to change his sexual orientation as it is impossible for a straight man to change his sexual orientation. It's just not going to work.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Same here

When I was younger I also was like this. My friends would swoon over boys and I would sit and listen, wondering about it. I have dated a few guys, but there was never a real connection with any of them. Quite honestly it just didn't feel right. I was always more interested in girls, but I had no idea why. I felt like I was "broken" because homosexuality was always a hushed subject at home. I never knew anyone personally that was gay and felt like I had no one to talk to about it. Over several years I gradually "came out" to friends and family and I feel happy knowing that it's not something I have to hide. A lot of times homophobic people condemn the act of gay sex, but that's not what it's all about. For me, I want a true mental, physical and spiritual connection with someone I love and I do not feel either of those with any man. Everyone is made differently and have different tastes, we are who we are.

kathy's picture

I also agree.....

It is really interesting by looking for an answer for my research paper about homosexuality if its a choice or not i came to this page. I am not gay but i am totaly behing gays, lesbians or bisexuals. We all are human and shouldnt be judged if we like people with different race or the same gender. It makes me mad how people say it is a choice and you can change it. how would straight people feel if someone would try to make them gay, kinda force them to do what they dont like? Why would homosexuals on purpose choose to be different so they get looked bad at or talked about or even get hurt by other people because they dont agree with it. we should just all except and respect each other the way we are, nobody is alike and it is nothing wrong with being gay. whatever makes you happy.....

darrell dunman's picture

It was explained to me years

It was explained to me years ago . Some people like Dick and some like pussy . You can't change that .

Nick's picture

And some people like both.

And some people like both. Some people like one thing for awhile and then switch. Some switch back and forth. Who cares??? The only people who care are the gays, trying to give reason to the religious. Personally, you're theories are all wrong. I've lived it.

NO's picture

NO

No crime is victomless and one should not be hated for believing that they are homosexual, but it is a lie. How many of you have ever questioned the choices of society. Have you ever thought that abortion is wrong, or theft, or sex outside of marrige (homosexual or heterosexual)? You learn right from wrong and vise-versa. Homosextuality IS a choice and is wrong, Yet I know that it is NOT easy to change one's heart. Everyone has problems, and it isn't easy to fix most of them. Any habit is hard to break. Homosexuality is a habit of the heart. This doesn't meant that one should hate anyone else, but hate the lie that is spread to be like truth. And to you who said you were christian and thought that homosexuality is right, please look up 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. It says, "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." Homosexuality is a sin. It is not right, and it is not easy to change. But I urge you to pray, and know that God does cares for you. Please ask yourself deep down, 'who are you?' because your sexuality isn't the answer. I could say that I am a heterosexual girl, and you would have learned nothing about me, and I would have learned nothing about myself.

Kael's picture

Really?

Okay, first, where the heck do you get off telling others that who they are is a sin? The same was happening with whites and blacks, with slavery. WHICH, by the way Mrs. Bible-quoter, is repeatedly endorsed in the bible multiple times. And now it is abolished in the majority of the world. So there is an inconsistency.

Second, The BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY STRAIGHT MALES. Shocking, I know. To think, the Book of Truth, in all multiple VERSIONS of it, could be biased and changed. GASP.

Lastly, NO... NO! I have wanted to change who I am [pansexual], for YEARS. To be normal was what I wished for with all my heart. Now I know, deep down, this will never change. I realized you SHOULDN'T change, just because other people feel what you are is so wrong and disgusting.

Also, Note that in the quote yo had, it only refers to males, not woman. The Bible is highly sexist.

Serendip VisitorNeil M U Phelps's picture

Is sexual orintation a choice

I am very interested in this ''choice'' correspondence. I am 76 years old and, up to now unhappily gay. My religion, won't let me practice sex without going to hell. My heterosexal brother, who I like, hates me, and I've been 3 times hospitalised and nearly died through gay muggings. I'm verbally abused by 'proper' heterosexual men in the street when I go out. I OBVIOUSLY MADE THE WRONG 'CHOICE'. I now realise. So five minutes ago I sensibly decided to become heterosexual. I was serious and used all my will-power, as one must in any life-changing choice. The gay life I've been living had been a nightmare most of the time. So I've made a new and healthy CHOICE. I immediately looked at some straight porn. Alas, I still madly fancied the men in it, but, perversely. the beautful women turned me off completely! Ithen looked at solo female porn stars with the most beautiful figures, but - still - NOTHING AT ALL! But I do still want to see men. At least, I'VE MADE THE CHOICE. A real one. BUT HOW LONG BEFORE IT KICKS IN? A day? A week? Will some sensible person who's turned their self-chosen sexual orientation around advise me please.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Good job

Good on you man. You say you don't want to be gay anymore, don't be. Look up all the EX GAY testimonies on the web these days. It IS POSSIBLE. Why is it possible? Because anything is possible through the Lord. SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND. Also, There is NO SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION for homosexual behaviour, yet people insist on telling YOU that YOU can't change who YOU are because YOU were born like that. Bullocks I say. Forget that lie. I wasn't born with pride, I became proud. I wasn't born selfish, I became selfish. I wasn't just BORN with everything I am now. I have grown, learnt and developed everything I am now. I chose who I am now. I AM WHO I WANT TO BE, IT'S THAT SIMPLE . I just might not always know how to get there.

YOU have COMPLETE CONTROL over your mind and soul in terms of WHO YOU ARE as a person.

And If people were 'BORN' homosexual, then every single person who has ever had a homosexual relationship or even thought, and 'experimented' at some stage, is actually homosexual. If they are now in love and married, with children as heterosexuals, then you best explain to them that they are living a lie, since that phase they went through was not chosen and all. Since it was actually something they were born with but they are denying?

Pft.

Nerdalicious's picture

No choice.

There is no such THING as choosing your sexual orientation. You either are, or you aren't. You can't *really* change your sexual orientation. I have never heard of a happy ex-homosexual. You like what you like, no changing it. And if you hear of those people who actually *chose* their sexual orientiation, they're only lying to themselves and others, whether they realized it or not. I'm 21, and I may be young, but I've been playing the "straight" card ever since I can remember. I grew up in an anti-gay, extremely religious christian family/community and I was told it was wrong or you'd go straight to hell for even thinking about homosexuality in that way. I only recently came out as a lesbian about 2 years ago to my parents, and was immediately disowned by my whole family. I even got the crap kicked out of me a few times because of my sexual orientation. You DIDN'T make the wrong "choice." There is no "choice" in the matter. You can't help it. Sure the LGBT community has to deal with all this hate and discrimination. That's why we have to fight it, so future generations don't have to suffer like we did! It will not kick in, and you won't be happy. Just my 2 cents.

ken hargesheimer's picture

cause by genetics?

On the news today was a segment on a woman who was born with no hands and no arms. All of us know of other deformities babies are born with. Many years ago, I read a book that homosexuals are made by family treatment. I wish I could remember the name of the book and author.

I am wondering if some, very few, people are homosexual because the genes messed up just like the lady without arms.

Serendip Visitor's picture

Agree

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Sherry McAbee's picture

Homosexuality

I believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think if a male believes that he is a female, then he needs to that a dna test. I think that would answer that question fast.

Serendip Visitor Writer Jerome's picture

homosexuality

You believe homosexuality is a choice. Every science-based medical association disagrees. Sexual orientation is not chosen and cannot be changed at will. Last month the president of the world's largest and oldest "ex-gay" ministry, Exodus, admitted 99.9% of the gay Christians in their organization do not change from gay to straight. (Google it) There is no evidence anyone has ever prayed away the gay, or chosen to change orientation. I was in the ex-gay movement for over 2 decades and in the religious "reparative therapy" which promised to change me from gay to straight. I did not change and nobody else did. Focus on the Family has an ex-gay ministry and its former leader John Smid also admits everyone in that group is still gay, including himself. Focus on the Family hired a man named John Paulk who literally wrote the book on orientation change, but was fired when he was caught flirting in a gay bar. And Dr. George Rekers, who used horribly brutal tactics to change children from gay-acting to straight was caught with a male escort he hired from rentboy.com (Google it)
And think about it for yourself, could you make yourself stop feeling attracted to the opposite gender and fire up your desires for someone of the same gender? Of course not. Nobody can make that switch. Nobody, including gay people. It cannot be done. Over 1,600 animal species have been studied and all of them have some homosexuality in them. So, blame Mother Nature or God, but sexual orientation is a gift which comes with a strict "no return" policy. You are what you are.

liz's picture

really??

I'm a proud sister of a gay brother, I know him very well, both of us were raised by a lovely parents with a high moral values, and you had a huge misconception about been gay, they are not want to be a woman, they are just fall in love with another men or been attracted to the same sex . Wan to be a woman in the case of a men or vice versa is another issue.

Nerdalicious's picture

Really?

A DNA test isn't going to prove ANYTHING. Homosexuality is NOT a choice. And to these other people who say "do you wake up as a baby and say "OH I'M GAY!"... Do YOU "wake" up as a baby and say "Oh, I'm straight"? No. How do you know you're straight? You don't have to be with the same gender to know if you're gay/bi/straight/whatever. You just KNOW. My point=proven. Have a nice day.

Serendip Visitor's picture

love is a chemical reaction

love is a chemical reaction ur born with a blue print in your DNA of what you like tall short thin large black white smart dumb blond red head and so on homosexuals are born with a different blue print

Serendip Visitor's picture

It is most likely not a

It is most likely not a choice in most cases they would be like everyone else until puberty when they would descover if they are bi or gay or straight many animals in the world have high numbers of homosexual intercourse (black swans, dragon flies, most great ape families, penguins, dolphins, and even giraffes) so in all likeliness MOST cases are probably having to do with errors in the DNA of an individual but some may choose it after all it is a lifestle that some might prefer.

Serendip Visitor's picture

are you born gay

There is absolutely no solid proof(factS) that you are born gay only theories! deal with it! it is choice as well as nature vs nurture.

Serendip Visitor's picture

WHAT?!?

How in the HELL can you compare being gay to nature vs. nurture and say it is a choice? People are born gay, you say there is no hardcore evidence, but I say look at the people who have tried to change from being gay to being so called "normal". They have self righteous people like you telling them that they are making the choice to be gay and that they can change at anytime, when in their reality, that is not the case...that's like asking you to step outside of yourself to be someone you're not when you can't. Your ideas are idiotic, and I know it comes from years of being informed by people who weren't informed enough, and so instead of developing your own system of belief about this subject (and I am guessing many others) you undertook the "fall for anything" method and adopted the beliefs of the persons ahead of you. Think for yourself for once, and share something a little bit more convincing the message you try to convey above. Nature vs. Nurture my #@*!

Amanda's picture

I'm arguing this same subject

I'm arguing this same subject with a friend of mine. And your comment basically stated everything I was meaning to a T.
So thank you. I just copied and pasted this exact comment to his thread to hopefully get the idiot to see my point. You've made yourself clear.

Serendip Visitor's picture

I do not believe that being

I do not believe that being homosexual is a choice.
Its not like people who are gay wake up in the morning,
look in the mirror, and say :Oh, I want to be discriminated against.
hmm maybe I'll act like a girl and look pretty and be clean."
or "Hmm, I think I look good with short hair. and I wanna be called alot of
rude names. Lets be lesbians.!"
NO.! THEY DONT CHOOSE TO BE THAT WAY.
They were made that way. Why is it so hard for you
to understand and be okay with?
GAYS ARE PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU AND I.
GET OVER IT!!!!!!

1st time reporter's picture

Does there have to be an

Does there have to be an explanation for everything? Homosexuality has been around since pre historic times. I am still not convinced that mankind evolved from the Ape and I really question the Adam & Eve theory. Does it matter? I am here on this earth without explanation. Take me for who I am, I am one of God’s creatures.

Serendip Visitor's picture

gay is a choice

it is 100% a choice.... but this is where people get confused, they think a choice is ONLY a concious choice.... rubbish!!. take for example the person that is always miserable and blaming everyone ells for the problems and always seeing the worst

they are clearly the ones causing their problems.. when you say to this person, "you are clearly choosing to be miserable" they will blow up in your face, saying how dare you, I want to be happy like everyone ells. when in fact, they have grown accustomed to being miserable, it is their normal state of mind, so they continue to CHOOSE this path.

exactly the same as gays saying, i wish i was straight, life would be so much easier.... what you wish for and what you actually do are completely different things. the mind is incredibly powerful and can surpass any physical influence. for example a person can believe in their mind so strongly that they are sick, that they will start to vomit. or actually become sick..just the same as a desire for the opposite sex can be dulled and even completely removed over years and years of subconsciously choosing to be gay.

I don't know the particular path that these people chose and the decisions that shaped their mind over time, but what i do know is that it was INFLUENCED... what ever they were once, was influenced to become something other that that.

any person under the "right" factors can gain a gay sexual orientation, and any gay under different circumstances would not have become gay..... unless of course the other scenario played out in a way that promoted gayness. but yes...highly unlikely.

now my problem is not with gay people, i have gay friends, my problem is that society treats them like a separate "born this way" people that should have seperate rights and responsibilities... that is the annoying part, they are just people with a different sexual orientation, like bestiality, dendrophiliac or pedophillia. ur not born a pedophile, you become one... should we give pedos the right to marriage now, and be all politically correct when talking about them. rubbish!! should we allow a man to marry a tree (dendrophilia).

im sure the pedo and the tree lover wish they were "normal" and say its not their choice, but yeh sorry it is, the mind is made over time and whether you take notice of it or not, its still happening.

if you wish you were a certain way, then guard your mind and take concious incremental steps to get where you want to be. its fine to have a gay sexual orientation but don't claim all this other nonsense along with it. its one small aspect of your life, a sexual aspect that is slanted towards men. some people like getting urinated on,some people like being dominated, some people like being treated as a child and yes some men like other men..... gayness is ONLY a sexual orientation, not a seperate part of the species,like seriously, men woman and gays... come on get real people..

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